JSON-LD Community Group Telecon

Minutes for 2014-01-07

n/a (ad-hoc telecon)
  1. Tooling for JSON-LD
  2. Context at schema.org
  3. Processing of relative IRIs without base
  4. Subtree split to create a repository containing just the JSON-LD tests
Markus Lanthaler
Markus Lanthaler
Niklas Lindström, Markus Lanthaler, Paul Kuykendall, Dave Longley
Audio Log
Niklas Lindström: .. Is there a telecon today? We planned for the 7th last time, but there's been no mail about it.
Markus Lanthaler: I don't know myself.. I just joined but was the only one
Paul Kuykendall: I was wondering about that myself
Markus Lanthaler: Do we have something to talk about?
Paul Kuykendall: We discussed last time the "next steps" with respect to tooling, etc.
Paul Kuykendall: Do we have any other items that we should go over?
Niklas Lindström: I guess we ended by saying something like "of course, unless we have a bunch of topics/issues, we could wait until we've gathered some and then issue a call"..
Markus Lanthaler: There was some discussion regarding the context at schema.org but other than that I don't think anything else happened
Markus Lanthaler: I agree, I think that's about it right now. [scribe assist by Niklas Lindström]
Markus Lanthaler: So I guess we postpone the telecon!?
Paul Kuykendall: Has anyone/group come up with a wish-list of tools, etc. that would be beneficial?
Niklas Lindström: I've no problems with taking that on the list and see if we can coalesce the questions around that (publishing contexts, caching and other tooling)
Markus Lanthaler: pkuyken.. do you want to briefly discuss this on the call? I'm happy to have a brief call but also fine with moving it to the mailing list
Paul Kuykendall: dialing in
Markus Lanthaler: niklkasl, will you join us as well for a couple of minutes?
Niklas Lindström: sure, dialing in
Markus Lanthaler: ping m4nu, taaz, dlongley_
Dave Longley: we are having a brief call if you want to join [scribe assist by Markus Lanthaler]
Dave Longley: i can join for a bit
Markus Lanthaler is scribing.

Topic: Tooling for JSON-LD

Paul Kuykendall: 2) Schema.org discussion on list
Paul Kuykendall: during the last telecon we discussed what tooling we wanted to have
... I'm wondering where we are at
... do we want to put something up on json-ld.org or on the wiki on GitHub?
Niklas Lindström: is having sound issues, so I may miss some speech from time to time
Markus Lanthaler: me too
Dave Longley: I think it would be good to have a primer
... David Lehn was working on it some time ago but it's not done yet
... people have issues understanding some things (like overloading of @type)
... not sure if a primer would help
... regarding tools: I think creating a wiki page and linking it from json-ld.org would be a good start
Niklas Lindström: +1 for a wish list (and list of common questions)
... also updates for the playground would be nice
Paul Kuykendall: a simple copy button on the playground would be awesome
... where shall we track these things?
Dave Longley: regarding the playground I think you should just file an issue
Paul Kuykendall: the only concern I have with the wiki (w3c wiki) is that people have the feeling to have to dig into specs
... instead of just having to use tools etc.
Dave Longley: I think we could just use Github issues for this as well
Niklas Lindström: one difficult question is always if JSON-LD is usable as just JSON
... schema.org might be an example for that.. can people use different terms (if they are properly mapped in the context)?
Dave Longley: I think we should focus on the JSON side of things
Niklas Lindström: yeah.. we should mention what kind of constraints that imposes in the primer
Dave Longley: do people agree with paul that we should avoid the wiki
Niklas Lindström: yeah, wikis are lousy for discussion
Markus Lanthaler: I agree. I would prefer to just use Gihub issues with a specific tag so that we can directly link to that list
(etherpad could be better but issue is good and available)
Markus Lanthaler: I think we shouldn't format it using ReSpec but make it look more like a blog post
Dave Longley: yeah

Topic: Context at schema.org

Paul Kuykendall: do we want to discuss the context at schema.org now?
Markus Lanthaler: I don't think we can discuss much here because (unfortunately) we are not in control there
Niklas Lindström: one of the interesting questions to me is that at this stage the intent of the examples being published is to create data being published by Google
... I think this intended for publishers to publish data for Google and the other schema.org search engines.. not other people
... Google obviously will have their own caches
Markus Lanthaler: most problems could be addressed by using @vocab
Dave Longley: that wouldn't address the problem that Martin Hepp is throwing in (tools accessing various schema.org URLs for properties etc.)
Niklas Lindström: that might be a problem because tools might do optimizations like prefetching etc.
... there are no such tools available for JSON-LD (yet)
Markus Lanthaler: that's a general Linked Data "problem"
... tools like Tabulator etc. will have to dereference properties etc. to get their labels
Dave Longley: in a lot of cases that's the whole point of all this
... anyway. I think there's progress been made on the mailing list

Topic: Processing of relative IRIs without base

Dave Longley: markus, I think we never decided what happens when base is set to null
Markus Lanthaler: at least my understanding from reading the RFCs is that the algorithms can only be run if there's a base
... if @base is set to null then there's none
Dave Longley: is there not even something like path normalization we might could run
Markus Lanthaler: I don't think so.. the algorithms are not defined
... The term "relative" implies that a "base URI" exists against which the relative reference is applied. Aside from fragment-only references (Section 4.4), relative references are only usable when a base URI is known.
... A base URI must be established by the parser prior to parsing URI references that might be relative.
Dave Longley: I'm fine with not touching relativ IRIs if there's no base
Markus Lanthaler: it's a bit weird but should we add a test for this?
Dave Longley: hmm.. no I don't think so
Markus Lanthaler: it's weird but we don't need to use an empty string
Dave Longley: yeah.. maybe that makes sense
Markus Lanthaler: that brings me to something else...

Topic: Subtree split to create a repository containing just the JSON-LD tests

Markus Lanthaler: could we create a subtree split including just the tests?
Paul Kuykendall: I think that would be a great idea
Markus Lanthaler: do you have access to set up a post-commit webhook on GitHub? I don't
Dave Longley: I have access
... I'll try to give you access as well